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Why There's Confusion Over Valuing Bitcoin
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Greg MacSweeney
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Greg MacSweeney,
User Rank: Author
12/18/2014 | 2:05:55 PM
Re: Suicide Cult
The fluctuations in BitCoin are definitely concerning, and are keeping many investors on the sidelines. However, certain big name companies have gotten involved. I wonder how these large companies can justify the risk associated with bitcoin?
NealPalmquist01
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NealPalmquist01,
User Rank: Apprentice
12/18/2014 | 12:47:27 PM
Re: Suicide Cult
It's not Easter (you know when we celebrate the resurrection of the messiah, Jesus? Jesus didn't even need to take money from innocent people to use for cryogenic freezing! So my prophet beats your prophet, Hal Finney.) so let me get that egg for you guys. The losing streak has gone beyond one year and the high was $1217 two Novembers ago.

 

"Btw, let me know, can you also pay with gold in your pockets, or even with fake virtual bank gold in your account using a smartphone qrcode scan?" Bitcoin transactions are paid with real money from the pockets of people waiting to finance your transaction at the exchanges. Nobody needs bitcoin as a pre-requisite to use a qr code. All this technology you guys are talking about can and will exist in a universe with a dead bitcoin fad. 

Bitcoin transactions require 3 parties

-a merchant

-a customer

-a fool at the exchange with cash who finances the purchase in exchange for absolutely nothing called bitcoin. Blockchain is nothing more than an inventory management system for thin air and is being abused to be a ponzi scheme.
NealPalmquist01
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NealPalmquist01,
User Rank: Apprentice
12/18/2014 | 12:06:10 PM
Re: Suicide Cult
Bitcoin is a varied and generally intelligent, progressive and generous community that lost over 70% value in the coins they bought last November and is a community growing to become more "intelligent" every day until the day they are all flat broke. Bitcoin is, in fact, infinitely divisible. I am not the one creating altcoins out of thin air so I can sell them for bitcoins to get the real money from stupid people. And GOOD LORD! Everybody knows that what a Bitcoiner wants more than anything else in this world is United States Dollars! You are fooling nobody, Leo. If the USD is going to sink, it certainly won't drown in a sea of bitcoin flavored kool aid.

OF COURSE IT WAS POINTLESS TO CREATE AN INFINITELY DIVISIBLE CURRENCY! You don't have to tell me. Tell Satoshi! And while you are at it, tell him it was uber pointless to create more than one infinitely divisible bitcoin. You are making my point. There never was any honest reason to create more than one infinitely divisible bitcon.

Gold and everything else has value automatically. Bitcoin doesn't because it is nothing and because there is nothing more abundant than nothing. The mathematical representation for nothing in all applications is always zero. No matter what you are talking about, if you are going to work with nothing then that place is represented mathematically with zero. And bitcon has the unique mathematical property of infinite divisibility because only a zero can be infinitely divided without losing it's properties.

Bitcoin is zero divided by infinity no matter how many tens of millions of them you want to make and no matter how many atoms of gold (or anything else) have been mined.
laurent 1
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laurent 1,
User Rank: Apprentice
12/18/2014 | 9:03:43 AM
Re: Suicide Cult
Thx Coin Brief. So lets take your computation to its ultimate consequences:

gold price per kilo is 38000$ (see goldprice.org/gold-price-per-kilo.html)

165 M kilos of gold vs 21 M bitcoin

If BTC market cap equals that of gold, one bitcoin equals 38000 * 165 / 21: 300 000$

If BTC only takes 10% of the gold market, 1 BTC is still 30000$.

Btw, let me know, can you also pay with gold in your pockets, or even with fake virtual bank gold in your account using a smartphone qrcode scan?

Does gold offer a technology with so many applications as the blockchain?

My bet is that BTC is still highly undervalued - unless it loses the competition agains a better alternative. But the blockchain tech is here to stay, and its potential market cap is huge.
Bruce Lee Roy
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Bruce Lee Roy,
User Rank: Apprentice
12/18/2014 | 9:02:10 AM
Re: Suicide Cult
you are wrong i wont begin to describe how wrong you are just do some research and stop being lazy ignorant.
Coin Brief
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Coin Brief,
User Rank: Apprentice
12/17/2014 | 2:25:04 PM
Re: Suicide Cult
Total number of bitcoins that can ever exist:

21 million (when mining ends in 2140...but even if Bitcoin lasts until 2140, lost coins will make that number smaller)

Total amount of gold that has been mined:

165,000 metric tons (tonnes)

Number of satoshis in 21,000,000 BTC:

2,100,000,000,000,000

Number of grams in 165,000 tonnes of gold:

165,000,000,000

Number of atoms in 165,000,000,000 grams of gold:

~3,057,000,000,000,000,000,000

 

The number of atoms of gold that have been mined is 6 orders of magnitude larger than the number of satoshis that can ever exist.

A satoshi would have to be broken down into units that are worth ~1/1,500,000th of a satoshi to create a number of units similar to a gold atom.

That IS possible, but would be completely pointless.  Those tiny units would be completely worthless, even if there was no other currency except for BTC, and the resources it would require to keep track of the extra digits wouldn't be cost effective.

Also, altcoins do not have any value automatically.  Their value is only based on what people think their potential could be.  Some do have legitimate advantages of Bitcoin that will need to either be integrated into Bitcoin at some point, maybe via a "side chain", or they will grow to be a competing currency (or, at least a currency with a specific use).

Think of it like USD vs foreign currencies.  USD is the most widely used currency in the world, at least for business, but that doesn't make it the only currency, nor does it negate the value of other currencies.

Finally, Bitcoin is not "the foundation" for altcoins.  The Blockchain is.  The Blockchain is the foundation for decentralized cryptocurrency, and other, related systems, in general...Bitcoin just happened to be the first one developed with it.  Satoshi created the Blockchain based on decades of research, and previous attempts to create a decentralized consensus system...but others were working on similar ideas.

 
LeoTreasure
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LeoTreasure,
User Rank: Apprentice
12/17/2014 | 12:45:07 PM
Re: Suicide Cult
1. Bitcoin is a varied and generally intelligent, progressive and generous community.

2. Bitcoin is not infinitely divisible.

3. You're conflating bitcoins and alt-coins.

4. The people claiming a satoshi will be worth fantastic amounts of money are not representative of the entire Bitcoin community.

5. Bitcoin is a technological breakthrough which you don't seem to appreciate. It is the hardest act to counterfeit a bitcoin. With fiat money, it's incredibly easy to perform a chargeback when it comes to electronic transactions. This is a problem that Bitcoin solves. That is why Bitcoin is real money. And no we're not pumping to get US dollars, that ship is going down.
NealP834
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NealP834,
User Rank: Apprentice
12/17/2014 | 10:33:37 AM
Re: Suicide Cult
Move over black scholes! I'm going to win the Nobel Prize! I offer the Theory of Relative Stupidity.

 

21,000,000/∞ = 21/∞ = 2/∞ = 1/∞

 

(21,000,000*0) / ∞ = BTC
NealP834
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NealP834,
User Rank: Apprentice
12/17/2014 | 10:00:23 AM
Suicide Cult
Bitcoin is a community of liars that wants to have everything both ways. They say the limited issuance makes it like gold, but when you divide a gold atom it is no longer considered to be gold. Bitcoin is infinitely divisible. You can divide bitcon as many times as you want to forever because it is created out of nothingness in a universe that was already known to be infinitely empty. They want it both ways, creating millions of new cryptocurrency coins out of thin air every day at the same time saying that the smallest denomination, satoshi, will grow into fantastic value and someday it too will need to become divided. The creation of tens of millions of bitcoins and the mathematical property of infinite divisibility are two self defeating and opposing forces that work against eachother.

If bitcoin is the foundation of all crypto currencies, then where do foundations go? 

Foundations go on the bottom. Altcoins are the bitcoin hoax applied onto the bitcoin itself. Altcoins are also created out of nothingness of thin air and are sold for bitcoins. The bitcoins are sold for the United States Dollars that everybody always wanted this whole time. These con artists know that any person who is stupid enough to give real money to buy the fake currency bitcon is also a person who is automatically pre-qualified as being stupid enough to spend those bitcons to buy altcoins in the hope of magnifying their wealth. Altcoins are "money for nothing" perfected.
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